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Post by drakewingfire on Nov 15, 2024 14:36:42 GMT -5
There was a lot that frustrated me with twitter for so long and it was hard cause it really did just give people a lot of the stuff they wanted, even if it was like giving someone junk food till they got sick..
What bothered me so much as a long time furry and an artist was watching parts of the fandom turning away from their own spaces. Seeing takes like furry-forums, FA, Inkbunny, Weasyl etc all being uncool or too old, how social media was the way it all worked now. It felt like the fandom started to split, a good number of folks wanting convenience over everything else it seemed.
Furries spent decades creating and curating our own spaces that supported artists, writers and many facets of nerd culture because "normie" culture doesn't really co-exist with subcultures as it more so tends to just absorb/dissolve/ erase them over time if it doesn't outright reject them. Leaving so much of the fandoms social existence in the hands of others just felt like a big mistep and it took me a long time to really understand the full extent of why. Hell we got to see it right before out eyes even, how censored the fandom was on some platforms.
Silver lining, it makes me happy to see more and more folks understanding the importance of community and supporting other furries and furry spaces. It proves that the heart of what makes the fandom such a wonderful place to be, is still alive <3
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wolp
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Post by wolp on Nov 15, 2024 14:48:34 GMT -5
What bothered me so much as a long time furry and an artist was watching parts of the fandom turning away from their own spaces. Seeing takes like furry-forums, FA, Inkbunny, Weasyl etc all being uncool or too old, how social media was the way it all worked now. It felt like the fandom started to split, a good number of folks wanting convenience over everything else it seemed. this is one thing that's bothered me a lot. it feels like any time i really liked an artist on FA or other niche-specific communities, they'd make a twitter one day and i'd never see them again. even if it was a slow decline in activity, eventually they would pop back in just to say "BTW, i'm more active on twitter now! follow me there!"
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cardinalfsr
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Post by cardinalfsr on Nov 15, 2024 15:10:36 GMT -5
That was one of my biggest issues of many people moving to or exclusively posting on Twitter - it's way too easy to get swallowed up by the constant stream of content, it's nigh-impossible to actually find anything, and you have to navigate a place that is considerably more volatile and hostile to get there.
While hindsight is 20/20, it's a little disheartening to see a bunch of people wipe their Twitter pages off the face of the net due to the change in leadership - all that art, all that history, poof! A dreadful reminder of why one should not keep all of their eggs in one basket. Always have a bunch of backups!
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Wicker
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Post by Wicker on Nov 15, 2024 15:39:11 GMT -5
There was a lot that frustrated me with twitter for so long and it was hard cause it really did just give people a lot of the stuff they wanted, even if it was like giving someone junk food till they got sick.. What bothered me so much as a long time furry and an artist was watching parts of the fandom turning away from their own spaces. Seeing takes like furry-forums, FA, Inkbunny, Weasyl etc all being uncool or too old, how social media was the way it all worked now. It felt like the fandom started to split, a good number of folks wanting convenience over everything else it seemed. Furries spent decades creating and curating our own spaces that supported artists, writers and many facets of nerd culture because "normie" culture doesn't really co-exist with subcultures as it more so tends to just absorb/dissolve/ erase them over time if it doesn't outright reject them. Leaving so much of the fandoms social existence in the hands of others just felt like a big mistep and it took me a long time to really understand the full extent of why. Hell we got to see it right before out eyes even, how censored the fandom was on some platforms. Silver lining, it makes me happy to see more and more folks understanding the importance of community and supporting other furries and furry spaces. It proves that the heart of what makes the fandom such a wonderful place to be, is still alive <3
I agree with pretty much all of what you said here. I think subcultures, groups, fandoms, whatever word you want to use almost need their own spaces to foster their unique voices. Imagine saying on Facebook a normal furry sentence like 'I know it like the back of my paw.' Here? Totally normal. On 'normal' social media? Not quite so.
I also think furries need their own spaces more than other fandoms because of the inherent 'roleplay' or 'fantasy' element of us all 'really being' our fursonas. Here, we can all suspend our disbelief that I'm a mole and you're a dragon, but to expect anyone on a normal social media platform to entertain this is a strong ask, and perhaps we shouldn't be asking them to in the first place?
But now that Xitter is (hopefully) dying can we do the same to Discord next?
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Wicker
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Post by Wicker on Nov 15, 2024 15:41:01 GMT -5
While hindsight is 20/20, it's a little disheartening to see a bunch of people wipe their Twitter pages off the face of the net due to the change in leadership - all that art, all that history, poof! It's funny to think that we were furious when Yahoo did that to Geocities, but now people do it to themselves out of spite and in protest.
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cardinalfsr
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Post by cardinalfsr on Nov 15, 2024 15:48:15 GMT -5
While hindsight is 20/20, it's a little disheartening to see a bunch of people wipe their Twitter pages off the face of the net due to the change in leadership - all that art, all that history, poof! It's funny to think that we were furious when Yahoo did that to Geocities, but now people do it to themselves out of spite and in protest. I think there's a sense of catharsis and finality in doing it, but almost everyone I know that's done something like that in the past has come to regret it.
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roo
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Post by roo on Nov 15, 2024 15:49:00 GMT -5
While hindsight is 20/20, it's a little disheartening to see a bunch of people wipe their Twitter pages off the face of the net due to the change in leadership - all that art, all that history, poof! It's funny to think that we were furious when Yahoo did that to Geocities, but now people do it to themselves out of spite and in protest. there is an important difference between the two cases: in the case of yahoo and geocities, a large company that found itself in dire financial straits due to its own incompetence chose to obliterate the legacy of tons of thoughtful work created by millions of people over decades as a cost-savings measure to save an unbelievably small amount of money relative to the stupid stuff they were spending money on, like buying tumblr at several times its reasonable value and then destroying it. in the case of twitter, it's not the individuals to blame - it's the new leadership. there are two key factors at play: 1. elon musk bought a thriving, active community and entirely reshaped it deliberately and in the open to push right wing and dangerous content. the site is primarily supported by advertising revenue, and the value of the ads is dictated by twitter's ongoing DAU/MAU numbers, so providing content with which people interact (or that they can browse on the site) is putting money directly into the pockets of a man who is openly engaged in a campaign to hurt people in our community. 2. the terms of service change (taking effect today) entitles twitter wholesale to use anything you create on the site as training data for grok, which of the major generative AI platforms is by a wide margin the least ethical, as its "free speech," anything-goes lean allows you to create nonconsensual or deliberately misleading content of public figures or in the style of specific artists. make no mistake - the new leadership is forcing people to delete their accounts. you cannot make someone contribute to things that actively harm them (the them being trans people, women, immigrants and artists, primarily) and then blame them when they choose not to interact with you anymore. i, too, felt a pang of sadness when i logged into my twitter account to delete it after leaving it dormant for years - but there is no denying the fact that i was forced to do that by circumstances, and would not have if i was not made to feel like the other option was worse.
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Wicker
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Post by Wicker on Nov 15, 2024 16:45:00 GMT -5
I get the reasons why, but it just generates an instinctual 'oh no, not again!' reaction in me. It doesn't help that the platform, regardless of the owner or the owner's politics, makes it almost impossible for people to archive things. I mean, there's only so far I can side with an artist that takes such an option with their work. Francis Bacon (not that one, the other one) did something similar. And it's not as if deleting it will keep it out of Grok's slimy hands. Plus, kind of carrying on what I said above, this is kind of always the risk on any platform not directly controlled by a group for its own ends, even if it means stepping back in terms of the capability of that platform. But people kind of want to eat their cake and have it too. Even Google can't afford Youtube, and who else but Musk could afford to take such a heavy loss on running Twitter? It might be 'thriving' but that doesn't keep the lights on. I guess I'm just too much a cynic in one respect, and too much an optimist in another.
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Horcat
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Post by Horcat on Nov 15, 2024 20:30:09 GMT -5
I seem to be in the minority in that I never found Twitter to be addictive. Seeing a stream of every more-or-less disconnected thought that went through some people's head just left me... wondering if they had a point, I guess? It's not like a thread, where there's a topic that starts it and (most) everything comes back to. So, not getting that infamous dopamine hit from it, it just kind of left me bored. Ditto Gab, Telegram, Mastadon, BlueSky, and essentially every other "send a group-text to the globe" platform that follows the pattern. I have an account on most of them, just to dip my toes in once in a while and see if anything has changed, but so far no dice. I vaguely remember FaceBook being better in the beginning, but I never posted much. I couldn't imagine myself having anything important enough to say that people I wasn't meeting in person later that week would want to hear it. So I did the typical "follow my family and a few old friends", until one day it kind of felt like a pseudo-stalking the lives of people I hadn't actually spoken a word to in the five years since I last saw them. I don't even know if my page still exists, having not been logged in since 2010 or so. I think that's what makes forums like this so distinct. Things aren't so random, even in the "General Discussion" section. Each section has a theme, and each thread has a topic. Thoughts can still range pretty far and wide, but it's reasonably certain this thread won't drift off into discussions of which brand of oil is most cost-effective, like folks posting in the Automotive section would be interested in, or even onto your latest beautiful art piece, which is getting all sorts of attention over in the Art and Illustration section. It certainly won't feature multiple pictures of what someone had for breakfast (unless someone here is looking to troll me for mentioning it. ). Even better, all of these sections fall under a furry umbrella. That one over-arcing theme that means everyone posting here has at least one shared interest we can all connect with. Reddit might have become the de-facto replacement for forums (I don't know what anyone else's impressions on that place are at the moment), but it suffers the same problem of disconnect that all the platforms above do, at least to my eyes. Wading through everything just to find anything, let alone something that actually interests me is... tedious, at best. Communities never really seemed to come together there like they do on forums. (Or maybe that's just me. Always take me with a grain of salt.) ... And wow, I did not mean to go on this long. I swear just seeing a forum again is playing havoc with me. TL;DR: I agree with the general sentiment of the OP, and just cannot truck with modern so-called social media. This place is like a real bed after too many nights spent on someone else's couch.
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xroshtag
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Post by xroshtag on Nov 16, 2024 1:28:50 GMT -5
Twitter seemed to work OK as an FA replacement for a lot of people. I couldn't spend time on there without feeling completely overwhelmed: that I was just chasing bigger numbers. Rewards felt hollow. I wasn't in a place where I needed to promote myself for commissions, and outside of that, I never found any really nourishing connection in there. Any real engagement happened in DM's or in IM elsewhere.
You hit the nail over the head with this. It was a mistake we ourselves - not individually, but as a community - did, to allow Twitter and social media in general to supplant gallery sites like FurAffinity. I know a bunch of furries still keep a presence on FurAffinity, but look closer and you'll notice many are heavily active on social media, while only posting on FurAffinity every few months or so.
There seems to be an exodus to BlueSky right now, which I have joined too; I hope it goes well, but for me, it is FurAffinity that I consider my "main" place to post. The other places seem... ancillary, at best. I know many furries used to be active on places like DeviantArt or Tumblr; DA is a bit dead at the moment, while Tumbr still has a healthy amount of traffic, but it astounds me that we still have a legacy site like FurAffinity, only for so many furries to, what, shun it in favor of social media?
P.S. I always find it odd when I see furries who post their content on Instagram, Facebook/Threads. It does not offend me, I wish them well, they just seem like places ill-suited to furry content.
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Valyce Negative
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Post by Valyce Negative on Nov 16, 2024 1:44:39 GMT -5
This comes completely out of ignorance on my part, is there a specific reason why FurAffinity isn't being considered as the prime choice for online furry interaction by newer generations?
Exoduses aside due to previous controversies and passing of the original owner, I see FA being taken into consideration as a posting site only by older fans (I don't want to misuse the term "grey-muzzle" here because I'm not referring to a certain demographic, I'm talking about people who have known the fandom since a certain number of years) while people who are just now approaching it stick to social media only and completely ignore FA as a hub alternative.
How come? Is it a form of "online lazyness", as in when someone new finds an interest on a certain board they don't go around the net to find additional spaces anymore? Or is there a common say/unwritten rule between "young'uns" to just avoid FA entirely?
I don't condone many of FA's choices of management and moderation, but as far as simply being a web place where you can store a gallery and interact with others pertaining to your subculture, it still seems to be the most appropriate place. The fact that it'd never train any kind of AI on its users or it has no algorithms for submission popularity should at least get a positive reactions from web denizens.
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xroshtag
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Post by xroshtag on Nov 16, 2024 1:48:29 GMT -5
This comes completely out of ignorance on my part, is there a specific reason why FurAffinity isn't being considered as the prime choice for online furry interaction by newer generations? My guess is it doesn't have the dopamine rush mechanics that social media has. It's not as fast, not as sleek-looking, not where the largest amount of people are at.
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wolp
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Post by wolp on Nov 16, 2024 3:09:35 GMT -5
personally, i like FA as somewhere to put my stuff. like what's been stated, social media makes it so impossible to find anything. be it with useless tags or the inability to separate art from whatever else someone's posting. my biggest gripe with browsing the site is that i can't blacklist any tags, though. there's just certain things i REALLY don't want to see that happen to be common, and it's annoying to have to exclude things in my search query every single time.
i'm def on the younger end, but the more active userbase seems more like people who have been around a while. i wonder if some people avoid it because of the er.. reputation of being mostly nsfw? or some other personal gripes. who knows. it's been the only place i posted my art for the past couple of years until i poked my head onto bsky recently. i'll prob just keep using it same as always, though.
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Post by drakewingfire on Nov 16, 2024 4:04:02 GMT -5
I still use FA near daily, I post all of my art on there and have done so since 07, so I am kind of married to the place. Not to make it sound that way as I am very happy on that sight and its been the one place that consistently allowed me to post all of my adult content without issue. That in and of itself was the one thing that made me so pro-FA over all my years as a furry.
I have to agree with Xroshtag as well, out of the reasons I would hear from folks, a lot of the younger ones seemed to focus around engagement and where the fandoms numbers were.
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roo
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Post by roo on Nov 16, 2024 11:53:11 GMT -5
This comes completely out of ignorance on my part, is there a specific reason why FurAffinity isn't being considered as the prime choice for online furry interaction by newer generations? Honestly it’s probably just that it doesn’t have the tools for the sort of social interactions people want to have online. There’s no good way to have an ongoing conversation, there’s no clear way to boost your reach - if you see something you enjoy you really have to share it off site to get anyone to see it. It’s not set up like the modern internet, which may be a good thing but certainly isn’t appealing to folks who grew up on web2.
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